Episode 107

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Published on:

28th Mar 2025

What was the origin story of the Wu-Tang Clan?

In honor of the upcoming Final Tour by the Wu-Tang Clan, we are discussing their origin story as seen in episode 1 of the 2019 documentary series Wu-Tang Clan: Of Mics and Men.

Robert Diggs (RZA) and the other members of the Wu-Tang Clan are introduced as survivors of difficult circumstances who found solace in hip-hop, kung fu cinema, and the Five Percent Nation.  

Topics discussed:

  • The economic conditions and racial tensions in Staten Island 
  • Family ties and bonds forged in Park Hill
  • The Five Percent Nation's teachings
  • RZA almost going to jail for 8 years
  • Kung fu and the martial arts aesthetic

Also check out:

Our episodes on Nas: Time Is Illmatic and Beats, Rhymes, and Life: The Travels of A Tribe Called Quest

Credits

Hip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMCs JB, BooGie, and DynoWright. Theme music by BooGie.

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Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to Hip Hop Movie Club, the show that harmonizes the rhythm of hip hop with the

magic of movies.

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Today we're discussing episode one of the 2019 Wu-Tang Clan documentary of Mics and Men.

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We're three old heads who put their old heads together to vibe on these films for you.

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I'm Dyno Wright, podcaster, filmmaker, longtime hip hop fan, and I'm going to the first

show of their farewell tour in Baltimore.

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I'm JB, and 90s nostalgia junkie, longtime hip hop fan.

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And I'm also attending the Wu Tang Farewell Tour, but in Boogie's hometown of Newark, New

Jersey, AKA Brick City.

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Nork.

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I’m BooGie, a DJ, longtime hip hop fan, and

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and while PE is my favorite rap group, I feel like

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Wu-Tang may be the greatest one.

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In this episode we'll answer the question, what is the origin story of the Wu-Tang Clan?

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Robert Diggs, RZA, and the other members of the Wu-Tang Clan are introduced as survivors

of difficult circumstances who found solace in hip-hop, kung-fu cinema, and the 5 %

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nation.

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Here are five things you need to know about episode one of Mics and Men.

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Really the five things that formed the Wu-Tang Clan.

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Number one, the economic conditions and racial tensions in Staten Island made them want

more from life.

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Number two, family ties and bonds forged in Park Hill gave them glue and togetherness.

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The five percent nation's teachings gave them self-esteem and an important organizing

principle.

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Number four.

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RZA almost going to jail for eight years.

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After that, he walked straight, gave them a second chance at life.

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And number five, Kung Fu and the martial arts aesthetic gave them their other important

organizing principles.

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Yeah, let's dig in of Mics and Men episode one.

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This is a great documentary and I can't wait to dig into the other episodes coming up.

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But first takeaway, as you mentioned, Dyno Wright.

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The economic conditions, racial tension of Staten Island.

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So they kind of like converted Staten Island to the slums of Shaolin.

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And that was like their spiritual, physical foundation for Wu-Tang Clan, all about the

upbringing.

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difficult times that they had to face and trials and tribulations.

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Boogie, want to talk a little bit more about what they were facing with on a day-to-day

basis?

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Yeah, know, Staten Island, you know, is often looked at as one of the forgotten borough.

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I mean, most people talk about, you know, the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, but yeah, Staten

Island kind of gets left behind a little bit.

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People talk about, what's going on in New York City as a geographic, you know,

location.

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But they had a lot of, know, same things they dealt with other boroughs, you know.

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poor conditions, crime, people having to resort to selling drugs to make a way for

themselves.

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That was the same kind of opposition and tension in dealing with the police officers in

the area.

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There were several stories.

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know specifically Method Man mentioned one when he was 16 years old on his way out and the

cops kind of grabbed him up and frisked him down.

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Luckily somebody came by and said, oh, you know, that's not the person we're looking for,

but you know, let them go, but you know, no apology or anything.

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It was just like, you know, hey, you know, go, you know, beat it kid, get out of here.

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And he's kind of like, thought that, you know, thought that was normal to get treated that

way as a child.

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And, you know, then they mentioned the story young man who was killed in Staten

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Ernest Sayon, who actually was killed by police in the neighborhood.

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They didn't really get much into it, but you could tell there was a lot of discrepancy

surrounding the story of what happened to him.

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People were protesting in the area.

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They had mayor at the time, Rudy Giuliani, speaking to the crowd, and they weren't really

trying to hear what he was saying because it seemed like he was more so making excuses for

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what happened instead of listening to what the people were saying.

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I think these hardships that the young men had to deal with coming up, like any other

group that you can think of that comes out of the city, it made them want more, made them

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hungry for wanting more.

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CappaDonna said it best, this is a culture created from expression, it was a way of life,

hip hop, that's what happens.

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And these guys were no different.

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Yeah, well, well, stated of Boogie, they were poor.

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They say we were broke.

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We're living the projects and projects literally were built like a prison.

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It's like a combine where they're enclosed and it's like metaphor for like, there's really

no way out.

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So we're like, kind of looking for a way out.

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And they, they leaned on their hip hop.

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Like the timing was like hip hop was taking off and they thought if we could master this

craft, all of us together, those conditions galvanized them.

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They faced a lot of racism, called the n-word chased, bottles thrown at them, riots,

fights.

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And again, just by diving into the hip hop culture, they were strengthened that, strength

in numbers and strength in their talents.

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For sure.

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Dyno Wright, anything at about like Staten Island as the foundation.

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the Shaolin, as they like to call it, the Park Hill projects, like you said, they were set

up like a prison and all the other amenities that you would need in a neighborhood were

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all there.

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so I think Method Man talked about this, like some people never left because they made it

so you didn't have to.

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But metaphysically, he wanted a way out.

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Like he saw that there was hope within all of this mess that that you could get out or you

could

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You can rise from your situation.

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They do use this as a theme, this rising later on.

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so, yeah, out of really difficult circumstances, it really fueled their art.

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Yeah, I think a lot of people, when they tend to think of the North, they think, the North

is free of racism, it's free of segregation.

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But in a lot of these cities, you'll see that there are clear cut lines with neighborhoods

where you don't cross the lines.

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there's the projects, JB said, they're made for you not to not leave.

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you're in those lines and most people tend to stay in those lines.

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We saw the same thing when we talked about time is Illmatic, know, that's their way of

life.

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Some people never leave, you know, but thank God that these guys had a vision and a fuel

to, you know, to want more.

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Yeah, so most of the Wu-Tang Clan grew up in Staten Island, but I know they said gza was

from Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and so was Old Dirty Bastard.

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But everybody else, I think, was from Staten Island.

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If you look at this documentary, episode one, this is great because it kind of just again

lays the foundation.

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A lot of them went to school together.

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They said that their mothers knew each other for the most part.

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And I guess that's kind of a good

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segue to our next takeaway, which is family ties and bonds that were forged in Park Hill

gave them that glue and togetherness.

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So having those actual true family ties where it was built on existing closeness,

neighborhood bonds and family ties in terms of like literally ODB, GZA and RZA were

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cousins.

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And it started with that brotherhood and camaraderie.

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They talk about they were

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They were like little rascals.

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were playing kickball and floating on makeshift rafts in the one pond.

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And then they had all the different personalities.

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And so they all brought some other different element to the group.

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again, usually a lot of people like, you know, they would met with some challenges like

you have nine, got so many guys, how's it gonna work?

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But they were like, we're not worried about that.

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You know, we're family.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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lot of them mentioned they came from broken homes, but like it was that unshakable loyalty

among the members because they had that bond and it started with the bond and it wasn't

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like, you know, it wasn't like a group that was put together by the producer or record

company.

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It's like, we're going to, know, like you see these boy bands and other things like that.

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It's like that this was formed organically and that was just, yeah, that was beautiful to

see.

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And not that they don't have their own conflicts, but they were really tight.

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Yeah, I remember Divine was saying that him and RaeKwon were best friends before the Wu

that they grew up as best friends.

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You U-God got, you know, hey, you know, we've been playing together since we were five

years old.

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It's like, wow.

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Yeah, I learned a lot about their different personalities.

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Like, I got to be honest, like I didn't know that much about the unique qualities of each

individual.

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I know I think that Method Man gets a lot of the face time and ODB became a, know, mega

star because of his solo career in his collaborations.

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like you said, folks like UGod and

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I know Ghostface Killa had his own solo and Rae Kwon and Inspectah Deck is like, I loved

hearing about, you U- God and they said beautiful violence, right?

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And Ghostface Killah got his name from the martial arts and he was a break dancer and

stuff like that.

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So I really liked seeing those unique aspects of each individual.

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Rae Kwon the chef has street elegance, said with a great voice.

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Inspectah Deck had seen everything.

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I mean.

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Yeah.

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where he lives, he could see the street and everything happening in front of him.

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So he had those types of experiences and Capadonna, they said, was a slang master.

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And even like you see a lot of all the different elements that we always talk about with

hip-hop and Method Man and RaeKwon would they would do tags with graffiti So, yeah, it was

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kind of cool to see behind the scenes of these guys

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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I like that Sacha Jenkins, the director, brought them to the St.

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George's Theater in Staten Island to have them watch their own archival clips and film

their reactions.

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I that was really nice.

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This is a kind of like summation of their career and that was really neat.

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I like what he did there.

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It looked really nice to have them sitting there, you reunited.

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It had a really good look to it.

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Yeah.

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definitely nice touch.

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And they can see that, you know, even the that, you know, the stuff that was difficult to

watch, they can kind of see how they could move past it, you know, by seeing how they were

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acting and, you know, understanding that they got that far because they worked together.

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And, that's the reason why they all became successful because they did it together.

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It wasn't like one person went out on their own and did it.

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And you know, they went out together and got, became who they were.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I mean, I RZA had that vision and was like, these are all my friends and these are like

the dopest rappers I know and we're the Wu-Tang Clan.

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You know, he'd say Wu-Tang slang first and then, you know, Wu-Tang Clan.

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And there's a lot of meaning behind that, which we'll get to.

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RZA was also inspired by the 5 % Nations teachings and they gave the group, gave him

self-esteem and among the other members as well.

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And that was an important organizing principle among the Wu-Tang Clan.

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Dyno Wright, you want to you want to talk a little bit more about what you saw here with

the five percent nation?

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Yeah

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So RZA comes across these teachings from the 5 % nation and they go through the supreme

mathematics, they go through the Asiatic black man being the original man and so that made

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its way into their rhymes too.

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So it gave them a sense of like importance and self-esteem like,

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human race originated with the Asiatic black man they talk about.

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And so, you know, when you're faced with this racism from other groups and like just

rivalries with other ethnic groups in Park Hill, to have that kind of boost to their

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self-esteem really propelled them.

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there's a lot to the supreme mathematics and self-determination and knowledge of self.

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I don't really know it well enough to really talk about it, but it was influential for

them.

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and it gave them confidence to pursue their craft too.

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Yeah, definitely.

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That was huge.

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Good point.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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So RZA brought that philosophy.

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RZA was kind of like the visionary behind the group, as I mentioned, and galvanized this

group with those philosophies.

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And you said it right.

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I'll repeat, propelled them to success in newer heights.

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And RZA himself interesting because he, you know, I think his family moved to Ohio and he

was still fairly young in his early 20s, maybe his around 20 or so, early 20s, 22.

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And he was, you know,

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Someone got shot and he was part of this feud, I guess, and he almost went to jail for

eight years, but that kind of scared him straight.

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And he had a new lease on life when he was released.

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or like when the charges, when he, he, you know, beat the charges exactly.

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That's what I was trying to say.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, he's like, listen, I could go one way.

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I can go the other.

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You see so many people from.

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Um, where he grew up not making it.

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And he said, man, I have an opportunity here.

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Um, I'm going to try to follow the, I think his mother said, you can follow the straight

and narrow path.

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You got to stay straight and narrow.

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And, and he did that and he made the most of that opportunity.

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He goes back to New York, reconnects with the other Wu-Tang Clan members and they go from

there.

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Yeah.

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I mean, a lot of these guys and Boogie mentioned like because it was so hard to get by

because the society, you know, there was, there's a lot of obstacles.

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A lot of them resorted to selling drugs and U- God even Method Man had sold drugs.

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U-God got locked up at one point.

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You had mentioned already Boogie Divine, which was RZA's older brother.

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He hustled a lot and he was actually really influential and kind of helping these guys.

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with the monetary, with profits, you know, building equipment, buying equipment, all this

stuff, which was kind of from the sales of the drugs and stuff like that.

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Inspectah deck got locked up.

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mean, divine got locked up for a long time, you know, and.

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Inspectah deck got locked up CappaDonna as well.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, these guys were hustling because that's what they needed to do to get by.

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fortunately, they grew both musically and intellectually and they kind of started

following a more straight and narrow path like RZA and eventually would hit it big,

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thankfully.

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GZA was the first one to kind of come out with a record, right, as the genius.

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Yeah, the genius, right?

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That song, Come Do Me, and that was played on MTV, I think.

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Someone's early video, early interview footage was really neat to see.

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him and old dirty bastard being interviewed.

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ODB was in that video, I believe.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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But then, I mean, the final takeaway, we got to talk about the Kung Fu and martial arts

aesthetic and that influence.

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And that's makes these guys so unique.

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I love the story behind, you know, the Wu Tang Clan and like, it's kind of like

metaphorical for the group itself.

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In the very beginning, you see Wu Tang is like, Wu Tang is the most powerful sword style,

right?

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That they saw in martial arts.

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And Amber, you want to talk a little bit more about the meaning behind Wu Tang?

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Yeah, Wu is the foundation of the universe, and Wu Chi, actually went to Wutang in China

and actually saw how they carried themselves there.

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it's probably the most powerful...

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forcing the universe and it brings everything together and it keeps everything intact.

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And that's, kind of what the group was.

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It was a combination of, you know, each individual MC having their own skills, bringing it

to the table and then as a collective forming a super group, if you will, based off of

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these teachings and, moving forward and making themselves better.

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It was just,

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always thought they were so cool.

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I remember hearing Protect Ya Neck.

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And I'm like, what are these guys?

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Who are these guys?

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You hear the Saturday morning Kung Fu sound effects going on.

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It's like, what is this?

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What is this?

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And then the video, it was very low grade.

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They filmed it with a camcorder.

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And it's like, wow.

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But one thing you couldn't deny was like when they each one stepped in front of the

camera, their skills were on front.

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Like, wow, these guys are nice.

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And think just hearing the the the kung fu element sound effects was just so cool.

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Like they were like they brought it out.

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Like they were like the originators of that.

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Nobody was doing that.

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Everybody was either speaking about, going back to the motherland or, you what was going

on in the hood, like as far as, you know, the violence that was going on or, you know,

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being Afrocentric.

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But these guys were like, nah, we're just, doing our own thing.

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But even though it was based off of, the 5 % of teachings, it's just, it was just so

different.

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what, and I think that's what

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took the world by storm and that's what made them as big as they were because they were so

different and they completely embraced it.

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Yeah, for sure.

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mean, Wu Tang, again, it's also a metaphor for like the sword style, as we said, and like

they said that their tongues are the swords.

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And it's funny when you said, what is that?

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That's exactly what some of these folks were saying in the documentary.

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Like they showed Seth Rogen for a clip or two, and he was like blown away and even Nas was

in it, I think for a little bit.

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And like,

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Stretch and Bobbito, we keep talking about them almost every episode now, because they

were so influential in getting the stuff on the air.

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And these guys would come like this whole crew came into the studio, like, yo, we got to

put this on.

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Because they knew that if you get Airplay there, going to get a lot of listeners and

people are going to want to get that music and be able to buy it in the record stores.

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Yeah.

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And Wu Tang itself, like that phrase.

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which translates to he who is deserving of God.

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And I think RZA said that toward the very end.

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So yeah, it's a beautiful marriage between the martial arts.

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You hear the swords, and then, you know, and they're powerful, the cadence that they have

and how they featured so many different members and their different styles.

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This is a marriage made in heaven between.

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It's like I'm sitting here, I'm like looking at the cassette single and it looks like if

you look at it, it looks like there's a what might be like some kind of a Bible of some

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sort or, you know, religious book.

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And then there's a sword underneath.

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Like we mentioned, you mentioned that the sword, the sword player, know, Wu-Tang being the

sword style.

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But like, look at it, it's so raw that everybody, know, everybody else's, you know,

cassettes at the time had

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you know, these flashy pictures and images and things on the front.

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I look like somebody drew it with a, you know, somebody hand drew that.

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It was so raw.

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Yeah.

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Maybe it was mathematics.

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Speaking of mathematics, you know, that's crazy how, you know, he hand drew that logo and,

know, RZA paid him $400 for it.

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Man.

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No.

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That logo is worth millions now.

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was going say that the shirt that Dyno Wright has, that is such an iconic logo, the yellow

W, right?

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That's more recognizable than, I don't know, that's probably like a top 100 brand in the

world.

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If someone just put that without the name Wu Tang, you'd like, what is this symbol?

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You recognize it just like you do with the McDonald's, the Golden Arches, and the FedEx

logo, and the Prudential Rock, and all this stuff.

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It's like, you recognize this stuff.

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It's Wu Tangs everywhere.

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internationally.

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From a graphic design standpoint too, they've remixed this and moved it around and twisted

it and rotated it and it turns into a lot of different logos for the other members and you

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really know you got something here when it's that extendable.

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That's true.

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One story that made me crack up is Mook the manager.

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I love his marketing technique, how he planted his cousin in the one record store.

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When the song was first played, on Stretch and Bobbito and they wanted to drum up sales.

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I think he bought a box of the records that they had produced, and he'd go in the record

store, and there's hardly anybody in there but his cousin's there, and his cousin's

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sounded like...

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Yo, what's that song?

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Was Wu-Tang Clan?

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I heard it on Stretch and Bobbito Oh, yeah, yeah, you want to hear it?

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And like, yeah, I want to hear that.

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And all of sudden he's talking about it too.

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And then lo and behold, other people come in the store and they catch on and they're like,

yeah, I did hear that.

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I did hear that.

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And it just dropped and he said, we did that in New York.

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We went down to North Carolina.

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We did that.

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We went all up and down the East coast and the same trick helped.

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was genius marketing campaign.

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He made his own luck.

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Exactly.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Pounding the pavement and that was awesome.

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I love that.

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Amazing, yeah,

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about why they picked Protect Your Neck as their first single, if any footage existed of

them recording it, because their first single was amazing.

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But it sort of popped out of nowhere.

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So maybe that footage doesn't exist, or maybe we see more of it later.

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I don't know.

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Not to spoil anything, but.

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It's a choice and I'm curious about this choice.

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Interesting,

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There's another amazing part of this documentary was when, know, Method Man goes back to

the Statue of Liberty.

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I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that.

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He used to work for several years and he goes back and he's his former manager.

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And I just love how he's so humble and he's just, know, Method Man out there and he's like

sweeping underneath, excuse me, I still got this.

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And then he sees his former manager, he sees the one woman that worked at the restaurant

there and...

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I'm what are you up to?

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I'm still Staten Island.

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So this was film, this was 2019, right?

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And so he's just like, yeah, yeah.

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So you guys doing, you you still live in the same area?

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I well, I'm still in Staten Island, but yeah, I a nicer house now.

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You know, my kids don't have to, you know, go through what I went through, but yeah, I'm

still out here, you know, doing things with the group, you It's just like, you gotta be

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kidding me.

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Like regular guy.

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man, I actually saw Method Man walk by a couple of times.

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in person.

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I was at a Jets game and I got like a suite and he's a big Jets fan and he's narrated

certain Jets documentaries and like he just walked right past hanging out.

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I'm like that was method man.

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Yeah then when I went to Rock the Bells festival he just walked right past he was like

filming a commercial and I was like oh my goodness and everybody's just like just

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chilling.

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You and Clifford Smith breathing the same air.

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Yeah, Yeah, seriously.

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I I had a close encounters with him.

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He seems like a great dude.

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Very, very.

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You could see when he went back to the Statue of Liberty, he was very gracious.

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And he actually said, this is one of the best times of my life.

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You know, it gave him that purpose.

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The best job he has the best job I ever had.

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I mean, that's really cool.

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Really cool to see that.

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You often see like these big time celebrities that hit big go back to these, what some

people would call menial jobs or like blue collar jobs.

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People probably like, I'm never going back, man.

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This was life, man.

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I made some money.

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It gave me a sense of purpose and I enjoyed it, right?

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It's good people that work there.

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keeping your feet grounded and never forgetting where you came from.

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Exactly.

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It is talking about couple of other guys that were working with New Jersey.

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Wait, was it New Jersey tranist or they're working with the trains?

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And Mook was a bus driver.

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He's like, that was funny when Mook was like, I've been driving the bus.

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You really want me to manage your group?

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Like, okay, I'll manage your group.

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Sure.

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I'll manage the Wu-Tang Clan.

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It could turn into something.

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man.

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That's what I love about these documentaries is like these little snippets, like behind

the scenes is like.

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Kind like the sliding doors thing.

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If he said no, that concept, nah, I'm good.

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Yeah, all these little things turn into this big thing.

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exactly.

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Yeah.

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I like seeing ODB's family too, his mother, Cherry Jones, and then his brother was more of

like a rock and roll guy.

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See some of his background.

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Yeah.

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ODB was character.

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Yeah.

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most eccentric one out of the group.

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yeah.

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Yeah.

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They always knew he was different, right?

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And like he always had something to say and he was always like singing.

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And it was funny because he was not into hip hop.

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Remember they were like, he didn't really like hip hop.

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We listened a little bit of hip He didn't really like it.

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He liked, he liked some of the classics or I know if he into R &B or some soul.

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Like he wasn't really into it.

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They kind of forced him.

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Like RZA was like, yeah, do this.

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I want you to rap on this track and then with his personality and his over the top.

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Charisma was insane.

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He had a completely different style and delivery.

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His cadence, everything was just completely different.

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I remember the first time I heard him I was like, whoa, what was guy?

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It's like completely different.

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It's like came from left field, like what?

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Yeah.

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He fit right in.

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Yeah, it was both unique and fit in nicely with the rest of the crew.

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I know.

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So anything else to add about episode one of Mics and Men?

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Can't wait for the rest.

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Yeah, right on.

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Yeah.

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stuff right here.

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All right.

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Stay tuned for part two!

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Okay, Hip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMC's JB, Boogie, and DYno Wright.

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Theme music by Boogie.

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Join us on April 24th at the Frank Banko Alehouse Cinemas at SteelStacks in Bethlehem, PA.

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For a screening of Hustle and Flow in 4K starring Terrence Howard and Ludacris.

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Tickets at SteelStacks.org.

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As always, check out our full live event schedule on our website, hiphopmovieclub.com.

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Thanks for listening to the Hip Hop Movie Club Podcast.

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If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend.

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It's a real power up for us.

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And remember, don't hate, percolate.

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It's time, guys, it's time.

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Ha ha ha ha ha!

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Time for the percolator.

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Oh man.

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my my my default theme song

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Love it.

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Yep.

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man, I don't even know how that happened.

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And I always think of our dear friend, the late, great Tony Whalen He loved the percolator

dance too, with his hair flopping around like insane.

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that was his jam.

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man, good times back in our college days with the percolator.

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times.

Show artwork for Hip Hop Movie Club

About the Podcast

Hip Hop Movie Club
Harmonizing the rhythm of hip hop with the magic of movies
Upcoming Hip Hop Movie Club events:

Apr 24 - Hustle & Flow screening
https://www.steelstacks.org/event/16926/hustle--flow/

Jun 25 - Beat Street screening
https://www.steelstacks.org/event/16927/beat-street/

More events to be announced!

HHMC is brought to you by a trio of longtime hip hop fans: JB, an 80s and 90s nostalgia junkie, BooGie, a veteran DJ and graffiti artist, and DynoWright, podcaster and filmmaker.

Buy some merch: https://meteorwright.one/shop

Subscribe to our newsletter and stay updated: https://hiphopmovieclub.substack.com/